Janet Bennett and Robin Givhan, washingtonpost.com Shopping Producer, Post Fashion Editor
Friday, January 23, 2004; 1:00 PM
Women buy clothes on a whim; men buy out of need. Still, according to recent figures, menswear has come out of the sports closet, and more men are spending more on their attire. They're getting rid of the flip-flops and the same-old khakis and searching for something between the very casual and the stuffy suit of yesterday.
Join Washington Post fashion editor Robin Givhan and washingtonpost.com shopping producer Janet Bennett online Friday, Jan. 23 at 1 p.m. ET to discuss the increasing number of men interested in a finished, more polished style -- as well as how many men think of themselves as metrosexuals.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
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washingtonpost.com: Men and fashion are not two words we usually put together in the same sentence, but we know you guys (and your significant others) have a lot of pent-up questions about the subject, so today Robin Givhan, Washington Post fashion editor extraordinaire, will do her best to address them. Without further ado, fire away.
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Robin Givhan: Good afternoon! Thanks for logging in for our little discussion about men's fashion. My first taste of the fashion industry was writing about menswear, so it's a pleasure to be able to talk about it today!
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Fairfax, Va.: Do most women really care what a man wears/dresses like
Robin Givhan: Oh but of course. At least that's my humble female opinion!Women also care about a man's intelligence, sense of humor, integrity, listening skills, etc. But style is what that whole package is wrapped up in. It's the first impression.
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College Park, MD: Is the changing male fashion scene the result of the gay influence on fashion
Robin Givhan: In a word, yes. but it's also influenced by a host of other factors. I am loathe to make a sweeping statement about a "gay aesthetic," but it would be fair to say that a significant number of movers and shakers in the fashion industry are gay, that gay men, on average tend to be more adventurous and more focused on clothes - or at least are willing to admit that they are. but the male fashion scene is also influenced by African American men, teenagers, sports, technology, CEO's and Hollywood.
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Arlington, Va: What are you top rules for guys and fashion
Robin Givhan: in no particular order: choose quality over quanity. love thy tailor. dress for the occasion. be comfortable and don't be a chicken.
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Jackson, NJ: Is there a fashion rule regarding when it is appropriate to wear white sox and when it is a no-no
Robin Givhan: wear white socks to the gym. wear them w/ white pants. the end of white socks.
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Washington, DC: Just when do you know if a man is a metrosexual or just gay
Robin Givhan: uh, i believe that would be determined by his choice of companion...
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Arlington VA: How long can you keep cologne? Mine has been a round for quite a while, but it still smells fine. Thanks.
Robin Givhan: the length of time that cologne lasts depends to a great degree on where you keep it. if you keep it in the bathroom, where it gets nice and warm and steamy...not so very long. kept in a cool, dark location, it'll have a long life. also, the higher the alcohol content, the faster it goes bad. cologne has more alcohol than say perfume. if you wear it daily you may not be able to detect if it goes bad as your nose is used to the slowly deteriorating scent. if you've had it more than a yearhowever, it might be getting a bit iffy...
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California: When speaking of the men's fashion scene you did not mention previous styles, or vintage style as an influence on what is being worn today. Isn't fashion a cycle of sorts that reintroduces styles from the past
Robin Givhan: Righto. How could i forget the relentless influence of vintage fashions. Just as in the women's market, the men's market is influenced by stylish icons from the past such as frank sinatra and steve mcqueen. also, recent trends have picked up on styles like mod. and Ralph Lauren has built an entire empire on the retro styles of cary grant.
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Washington, D.C.: I'm looking to buy a good black suit. I'm looking at some high-end names. Which would you suggest: John Varvatos, Zegna, or Armani Collezioni?
Robin Givhan: I applaud them all. Every man needs at least one splendid black suit in his wardrobe. something classic that can take him from the office to an evening event. (gosh, that sounded a lot like some insipid fashion show commentator!) but it's true. all of those lines offer beautiful, lasting styles. i'd also consider Ralph Lauren's Purple Label. but you might also look at private labels as well as brands such as Hart Schaefer Marx
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Washington, DC: What's with this whole "metrosexual" craze? I walk down the street every day wondering if we've been occupied by France. Will Home Depot be able to cope?
Robin Givhan: Popular culture loves a freshly coined word. I think the word is silly, but it reflects a laudable trend, which is men who care about good grooming and style and, more important, aren't embarassed to admit it. As for the Home Depot, what woman wouldn't love a man who can hang shelves but also knows his way around the Kiehl's counter?
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Washington, DC: Just want to point out two fashion faux pas.
--Don't clip anything to your belt! This includes cell phones, PDAs, or cameras! Dorkus Maximus!
--Buy pants based on fit. Nothing makes you fatter than pants that look too small on you and show your gut hanging over. I'm overweight, but look trimmer because I have pants that fit me properly.
Robin Givhan: Rock on. I agree with you 100%.
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Washington, DC: These sorts of columns always amuse me. Black women have the opposite story. My husband's clothes cost more than mine, he has as many shoes as I do, and I just put up a second closet to hold his shirts! If the family is late getting somewhere, it's because Daddy took too long to get dressed (same with my Dad, my uncles, etc.) Be careful what you wish for ...
Robin Givhan: True. My mother just reported what my father wore to church last Sunday morning: charcoal gray suit, lilac shirt w/ a cornflower blue tie (ok, i bought the shirt and tie combo), black overcoat w/ a black fedora. before she could comment on his attire, he pronounced himself dapper. but he's never over the top. a fashion obsessed man is just as bad as a fashion obsessed woman.
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Washington DC: OK, I'm a chicken. I stick to a few colors (black, gray, navy) and cannot fathom how to match pinstripes and patterns on suits, shirts and ties. Any hints on livening up the colors and jazzing up the business wear
Robin Givhan: set your inner peacock free! the key to mixing patterns is to stay in the same color family. one pattern should be the dominant pattern and the other should compliment it. don't have a war of stripes, checks and plaids going on over your body. you could also start w/ shirts that are not the usual white, powder blue or pale yellow. maybe deeper hued shirts and a stronger tie. love a French cuff shirt and a nice pocket square.
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Long Beach, CA: Stylish proponents of "Ska" music, Rock Steady music, and early reggae can very well wear white socks with black shoes and a '60s sharkskin, and be quite on the money. Just thought I'd mention that!
Robin Givhan: true. but that is a very specific kind of look. not mainstream. that's like fashion 401. we're talking introductory course!
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Washington, DC: Michael Jordan used to do/does the white socks w/ suits thing. With his height, it seems to break up the length of his pants nicely. So are you saying MJ is fashion inept?
Robin Givhan: even the great ones stumble.
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Washington, DC: OK, what's Kiehl's?
Robin Givhan: boutique grooming products for men and women. known for their utilitarian packaging. they don't advertise. they're opening a store in Georgetown in April
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Arlington, Va: First, thank you for being so deliciously evil and wicked. You are truly an original. Your savaging of Katherine Harris alone was worth the price of the paper. How do you feel about fashion people? Also, how do you feel about Paris Hilton-inspired designers such as Heatherette? Thanks.
Robin Givhan: Hugs back to you. How do I feel about fashion people? I love them like they are naughty children. I'm not the biggest fan of Ms. Hilton. not a fan of heatherette either.
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Gaithersburg, MD: What is the one thing I should NOT do? What's your number one pet peeve re: men's fashion?
Robin Givhan: i can only pick one? then it would be the man in the uniform: Dockers, blue chambray button-down shirt, loafers with a rolled over heel and that haven't seen polish in their lifetime, canvas backpack
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Washington, D.C.: I was told growing up that black suits were tacky, and that the only black suit a gentleman should own would be a tuxedo. Somehow I can't seem to fathom buying a black suit. It's like the white shoe Memorial/Labor Day rule that my mom pounded into my sisters!
Robin Givhan: a black suit tacky? say it isn't so. a black suit is more formal than a navy one. it's extremely elegant. but it should be in a beautiful matte wool- no sheen.
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Washington, DC: When does Tom Ford leave the Gucci company? Was spring 2004 his final line?
Robin Givhan: Tom's last Gucci collection for men was this month - for fall 2004. he leaves the company in April 2004, so he's still got the women's collections for fall to show: Gucci and YSL. his final finale will be, I believe, March 7. YSL women's show. i'm sure there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth.
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Capitol Hill: Robin, love your writing. I remember you writing a column about "Age Appropriate" dressing for women, but what about men? I am a 37-year-old gay man, and dress pretty conservatively at work and for casual. I can't tell you how many men my age and older who wear things that really do look ridiculous on them! Those awful low rider flared pants remind me of Joey Heatherton rolling around on a mattress circa 1971. What do you think? I am interested in your opinion, keep up the good work!
Robin Givhan: Oooh, thanks for the compliments. You are 37 years young, baby!I think, however, there does come a time when a man can no longer dress like a surfer dude, a hip hop kid or a boy toy. that age, is approximatly 29, give or take. at that point, one should be well on the path to finding personal style and no longer feeling the need to dress to fit a specific mold.
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Silver Spring, MD: I'm an African-American man who finds the over emphasis on fashion by other African-American men truly ridiculous, especially from a financial perspective. I can't tell you how many brothers I know going into debt by shopping at Saks and Nordstroms instead of Target and Marshall's.
Robin Givhan: i think everyone is allowed their indulgence. for some people it's clothes, for others it's cars, wine, jewelry, rare books, season tickets to the whatevers. the problem is when the indulgence leads to debt counseling.
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Los Angeles, CA: Suggestion to women in general: Stylish dressing is acceptable, but BEWARE of men who get manicures.
Robin Givhan: i don't mind the manicure...but beware of men who go for the clear polish!
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Washington, DC: "Love thy tailor?" I am obviously in the wrong place. How many men do you think have a tailor?
Robin Givhan: not enough! actually, i see a lot of men walking around in suits who clearly didn't even bother to have the pants hemmed to the proper length. a tailor is just the guy who comes into the fitting room when you buy your suit. Banana Republic has tailors who will make sure jackets fit correctly. practically every dry cleaner offers some tailoring service. i'm not talking custom-made...
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"Man In Uniform" here.: Wow.... I am that "man in uniform," minus the loafers. My girlfriend says I dress very classic and thinks I need to be a little more, in her words, edgy. I'm comfortable being classic, but how would you suggest a 24-year-old guy like myself adds the edge without breaking the bank. She has pointed me towards some nice rollneck sweaters and has me wearing black or gray pants more often. What else can I do?
Robin Givhan: Listen to your girlfriend. she will not lead you astray. i don't have anything against khakis, not really, but there's an entire world of trousers out there from gray flannel, black wool, corduroy, etc. instead of the pale blue shirt, there are beautiful, lightweight sweaters, turtlenecks, striped shirts, henleys. I suspect stores such as the Gap, Club Monaco wouldn't break the bank.
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Washington, DC: Besides GQ, what sources should men use to stay current on fashion trends
Robin Givhan: i'm a fan of GQ. for those looking to get the phd in men's fashion there's magazines like vogue homme. even breezing through a magazine such as People will give you a sense of how stylists are putting men together in Hollywood- many of whom are as skittish about fashion as anyone else. but i'll be honest, the pickings are slim. you can also check out fashion online, pretty much every designer has a website.
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Washington, DC: "Love thy tailor" Sam Lee, Penn Ave SE by Eastern Market. Best guy in the city!
Robin Givhan: thanks!
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Cleveland, OH: When will the pleated pant disappear forever? Is there a single instance when they should be preferred over flat fronts
Robin Givhan: hmmm, i can't think of one. but some men like them, swear by them, can't say goodbye to them. a modest pleat is fine. nothing too swashbuckling, please.
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San Diego, CA: Who is your vote for best-dressed man in America? Esquire voted the Duke of Windsor as the best dressed man of the 20th century, as he created fashion looks all by himself, including his own way of tying neck ties. Does this point out the need to be the very best?
Robin Givhan: best-dressed man in America? my father. (just kidding) i can't argue with the Duke of Windsor. but dressing well is not a competition. it's doing the best for yourself and having the good manners to present yourself well to those around you.
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Washington, DC: Where's the best place to get stylish clothes? I've looked at Saks and Neiman Marcus, but the prices are high. I guess what I'm asking is where can I get designer clothes (Versace, Armani, Zegna, etc.) for a better price?
Robin Givhan: Well, now, you want it all don't you? Designer, stylish clothes. for a bargain? sounds like you need to go to an outlet like Potomoc Mills (is the Barneys outlet still there?) or wait until Last Call. Armani prices, are Armani prices. at least at retail.
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Mitchellville, Md.: Henleys? What's that? You're talking to fashion idiots here, Robin. We need a glossary.
Robin Givhan: sorry, they're those long sleeve t-shirts. they have a few buttons just at the neck. lots of men wear them as a layer in cold weather.
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Laurel MD: How does one judge an appropriate price for clothing? Everything's half off at least some of the time; and in one department store I swear everything is at least 40 percent off some arbitrary reference price. How do I know what I ought to pay for something?
Robin Givhan: appropriate is oftenin the eye of the beholder... however, in general, retailers markup clothes by 100% (check my math on this please) so if it cost a retailer $100 to buy a shirt wholesale, they sell it to you for $200 give or take. so when something is marked 25% or 50% off, the retailer still profits. my rule of thumb is to never cut corners on shoes or a suit. also, sometimes, you're not just paying for the material, you're paying for the styling and the fit.
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Arlington, VA: Just a word of advice to men out there - flat front pants flatter everyone. Pleats are awful on almost everyone. As a single woman in this town, I am done with Dockers and sports caps (ugh), but at the same time I do not want a guy who's too slick and vain. That's my department. Guys - there is a happy medium. Just be interested in style, and have a sense of humor when you dress. I love a guy with a "twist," whether it's integrating some tasteful vintage into your wardrobe or being willing to try a shirt with a bit of color. Take "normal" and just give it a little twist and you'll turn heads. Relax and enjoy. And, men of Washington, your hair is too short. Just let it grow out and inch or two (unless you're balding, in which case you can shave it all off).
Robin Givhan: there you have it fellas
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NC: What should you look for in a tie? Match the shirt? Match the suit? Is there a rule about striped or patterned ties on striped or checked shirts? From what I can tell, the solid color tie on solid color shirt is passing. True?
Robin Givhan: ok, the tone on tone shirt and tie, Regis Philbin, Who Wants to be a Millionaire look? over, goodbye, so long. you will not be mocked for wearing it, but it is no longer the preference of Mr. Fashionable. The tie does not have to match the shirt or the suit. But it should compliment them both. You can absolutely wear a patterned tie on a patterned shirt, but again, that requires a more advanced degree in fashion.
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Washington, DC: Speaking of tying neck ties, any advice for us?
Robin Givhan: i prefer the half-Windsor knot. small, tight. the full on Windsor is larger, requires a spread collar and a man of some self-assurance as the knot is approximately the size of a golf ball. i will not even discuss clip ons of any sort.
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Washington, DC: What do you think of Syms or Men's Wearhouse as a place to get good suits? They don't have the big names, but they have suits for $400 or less.
Robin Givhan: don't judge a suit by its price tag. how's the fabric? is it so thin it feels like it'll go shiny in five seconds. how's the fit? it's not some crazy, out-of-date style is it? i think you can get fine suits in a lot of places. andnever forget the massive sales that full price stores have.
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Silver Spring: Any thoughts on what the obesity epidemic is doing to fashion; Are retailers responding, or do they not care, comfortable in the belief that their "real" customers will always be thin
Robin Givhan: Obesity...bad bad bad. i think retailers are responding with a wider variety of stylish clothing under the banner of big and tall. both mid-price and high end. but the fashion industry- that is the runway industry - does not believe in paunches. fair or not. buti do think menswear is, in general more forgiving of a wider variety of physiques than womenswera.
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Washington, DC: Robin and Janet, your chats are my favorites. But why so infrequent?? DC might not be a fashion capital, but I still think there is sufficient demand for at least monthly chats on this topic (obviously, not just on men's fashion, but on fashion generally). Besides, how else do you expect the fashion landscape here to improve? Keep up the great work!
Robin Givhan: I'm game! I'm sorry I can't get to more of your questions, but this has been a real pleasure. Hopefully we can do it again soon. In the meantime, perhaps some of your questions will turn into stories. Thanks for participating.
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